griefHaven Forum - Where hope resides

Find Us On Facebook
March 05, 2015, 12:58:10 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: FIRST TIME REGISTRATION MADE EASY.  Just follow each step below, and you will be sharing on the message board in no time.

1. Go to this link and fill out the brief form. http://www.jotformpro.com/form/11745848669
2. We will receive your request via email.
3. Depending on the time of day, your request to become a member will be approved anywhere from 15 minutes to 24 hours.
4. There is no need to send more than one request. Just wait for your approval notification.
5. You will be notified via email when you are approved (to the email address you provided us) and sent your password.
6. You may also email our webmaster directly at deborah@qwsseattle.com if you need help registering.
7. Please note that the normal registration button has been disabled. You must use the link above.
8. Go here for help on how to use the forum: https://griefhaven.org/griefforum/index.php?action=help
9. Watch an overview video on how to use the forum: http://www.griefhaven.org/forum-video.html
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
 1 
 on: March 02, 2015, 07:06:40 AM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by Karen0909
 Hi Annie,

Thank you for the details of Ali's dream visits.  I know how healing "in the moment" contact in present time can be.  For me,  this is what keeps me going many days when I fall back into victim mode and feel like I'd rather have this life over.  I thought I'd share another Hawk message a couple of years ago.
Every year around our birthdays we always hope to get some kind of little hello from Naomi.  I think all of us here on this forum know the difficulties that holidays and birthdays can present.  It was my husband Steve's birthday and he was really hoping for a message.  We had gone out to dinner with friends and enjoyed a lovely dinner and a few drinks.  The evening ended and Steve was disappointed that there was no sign from his wee one.  The next morning we were up and enjoying our morning coffee.  I happened to walk over to the kitchen window and glance out to our driveway below. As I looked down I had to really focus as a small bird was moving strangely.  As I looked closely I realized it had a huge red tail hawk feather in it's beak.  The bird seemed to be jumping up and down as though it was trying to fly away with the feather.
I laughed and called to my husband that he better come quick, a little bird was trying to steal his birthday gift from Naomi.  Steve raced down and retrieved his feather which we have added to our collection.

I'm so sorry for the painful time you've had dealing with the legal system. There really is no such thing as justice the way we have our world set up.  I really hope you may find a sense of peace as you move forward from such trauma.  It is such a wonderful gift to have some grandchildren to help heal the emptiness that can be so consuming.  It must be comforting to have your son Gregg as a companion/guide for Ali both now and before her passing. Was Ali quite young when she became aware of Gregg being with her?  I wonder if your grandchildren will have similar experiences?  It's my understanding that children are very open and naturally connected with the spirit world until about the age of 8 yrs.  This seems to be the time frame the "veil" between the two worlds closes.

I'm happy to continue our conversations, I too have not found many others with similar beliefs, curiosity and willingness to discuss topics such as this.

Warmly,

Karen

 2 
 on: February 28, 2015, 07:27:20 PM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by quiltartist
Karen, I am beyond thrilled to have such a full response from you.  Your experiences are very similar to mine, highly symbolic and numinous.  My experiences have led me to construct a notion of how this all works similar to yours.  The story of the dog and Naomi's response, the hawk circling over the dog's head after he managed to struggle onto land with your daughter's help made every hair on my head stand up and brought tears to my eyes.  It's very rare for me to find someone who has these kinds of spiritual experiences and articulates them with such care and clarity, and I have badly needed this.  Most of those I'm close with are very open to
hearing about my experiences of connection with our children who have passed on (or whatever...I struggle profoundly with the terminology; none of it, short of poetry, seems to work very well: words don't work very well and I'm a writer by profession!)...but none of them has the dreams or synchronies I do.  Yes, the dreams are not only in color, they're characterized by what I can only call 'living' color...brilliant luminosity, as if everything in the dream were lit from within and the color vibrating, like a plasma, more alive than anything literally alive.  Ali has visited in dreams many times, and these visits have been my salvation as I've gone through losing her (and Dann; he has visited me too).  But one set of Ali visit dreams about five months after her death, when I was in black despair, was mysterious to me for awhile.  In each of these she appeared in black, but the black was dazzling, breathtaking in its depth and radiance.  In the first of them,  I was traveling in a car (a common metaphor for my life going along in my dreams), and I turned around and there she was, wearing a black voile dress which glowed.  She looked at me deeply and her gaze was telling me to pay attention to the 'black'.  In the next one she was wearing a long black sequined dress that threw millions of bursts of light and was so stunning I had the thought in the dream that I'd never seen any clothing so beautiful, that it rivaled anything we consider a designer masterpiece.  Again she looked deeply into me: the black, pay attention to the black.  I was so frustrated in the days afterwards: what are you trying to point me towards?  Finally she appeared in a nun's wimple.  I actually laughed in the dream.  We adopted Ali and had an open cooperative adoption.  Her birth family was Catholic.  Her husband, her childhood sweetheart, was Catholic.  She was by nature a skeptic, keenly, brillianly intelligent, an almost savage critical thinker, but  she had a highly personal spiritual life that included the experience of her brother (my firstborn Gregg, who died when he was 13), whom she'd never met here, as her companion and guardian.  Ali as a nun...I couldn't help but laugh: god help the Church.  (I was raised indifferently Protestant and converted to Judaism, and remain like many in modern day Judaism, a lover of my Judaism and also spiritually independent and ecclectic.  My husband is a pantheist...or something Smiley )  In this dream, in her wimple, Ali seemed good naturedly impatient with me, as I clearly wasn't getting the message, hence the extreme of having to appear to me in a wimple.  Mom! Hint! This has to do with spiritual reality!   Two days later I opened a binder in my office and there was my copy of a piece I had read at her wedding.  She'd asked me to read something and she couldn't think of anything and neither could I until I found Fra Giovani's Christmas Eve Letter to His Patron, 1513, given to me by a friend when she was dying.  There's conflict over the origin of this, but the message is commanding.  I didn't think Ali would go for it but emailed it to her anyway and she loved it.  That day when I opened the binder where I'd filed it (and since forgotten it), my eyes fell directly on "...there is glory and radiance in darkness, could we but see; and to see we have only to look.  I beseech you to look."  So there I was in my darkest darkness and there she was saying, "Look closely at this darkness: the mystery I've 'disappeared' (from the material standpoint), into and your bleakness. Both are in fact (to quote the piece again), "a living splendour...Everything we call a trial, a sorrow, or a duty...the gift is there..." 
These dreams are full of teaching as well as reassurance.  And...I go for stretches forgetting most of what they've taught me!  I often feel thoroughly split between this reality of the dreams (and other synchronies ), and my quotidian material existence.  I am hoping the spinner at the core of my being will weave these two realities together in some sense of peaceful knowing at some point. 
The second year after Ali's and Dann's deaths (and Dann has visited me too, as has Gregg again with Ali), was all about the criminal trial for the woman who hit Ali and her husband in a crosswalk.  It was on again, off again, on again.  I think what that's called is re traumatizing and it surely was.  I had badly wanted a personal process with this woman (I had one with the young woman Gregg collided with in a blind intersection and it left both of us feeling accepted, cared about and free of any feelings of blame or shame), but she refused, and I had hoped the trial would really be (even expected it to be), about justice--a fair, respectful examination of what happened.  It was a circus, full of theatrics and distortion (on both sides), indifference, disconnectedness, corruptions, lies...utterly demorializing.  We're just coming off of that and what stares at us now is 'now what?"  What do our lives look like now?  What are we here to learn, do, understand now?  Two young grandchildren provide us with the delight of 'new life'.  And we are resting, still grieving, listening to hear what our work is now. 
Thank you so, so much for your input.  If you have any interest in continuing our conversation, I'd love to hear anything more you want to tell.  Many blessings, annie (quiltartist)

 3 
 on: February 25, 2015, 08:06:56 PM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by Karen0909
Hi Quiltartist,
Thank you for the supportive words, I'd be happy to share how my spiritual beliefs and experiences keep me connected with Naomi. My husband shares a similar belief system with me and I know this has helped both of us deal with our loss.
I believe that each of us is an immortal soul having an earthly experience at the moment. This includes the belief in reincarnation and that we have groups of souls that we tend to reincarnate with.  I believe I have had many lifetimes with both my husband and Naomi.  I also believe that we spend time with loved ones when we are back in spirit after death.  This life between lives is where we decide when, how and who we will return to an embodied life with to have specific experiences and learning opportunities.  We both believe that Naomi was only meant to be here for a short time and she affected soooooo many lives in this short time.
The most meaningful symbol for us from Naomi involves the hawk.  When I was pregnant with Naomi my husband was out on a bike ride in the country.  He looked up and there was a red tailed hawk flying overhead and a large tail feather floated down right to him.  When he came home he had the feather and  I told  him that the hawk is considered a messenger from spirit.  At the time I had a gift shop and a woman who made dreamcatchers was at my shop.  She made us a beautiful dreamcatcher with the feather and this was the beginning of our connection with Naomi and the hawk.  Whenever we see a red tailed hawk we feel like it is a hello from her.  A powerful experience happened a few years back when we were out for a walk in a favorite wooded area along the river.  We are always asking for a sign from her, it sometimes feels like whining but it always makes us feel better in the moment to get a hello.  On this particular day it was after a spring thaw and the river was flowing fast with icy edges all along the riverbank.  On the other side of the river was a walking trail as well, and we could see a woman walking a couple of dogs.  One of the dogs was a little one and the other a lab. The lab went into the water and I immediately felt like this was not a good thing.  We stood watching a terrible scene unfold as the poor dog was swept into the current and not able to get up onto the riverbank because of the thick ice at the edges.  Time after time the dog would try to get back onto land and then be swept back into the fast flowing water.  It was so sad to watch feeling helpless and thinking the poor dog was going to drown.  Naomi was a dog lover and as I stood helpless I called out loud to her "Naomi if you can help this poor dog from where you are please get help".  Within a minute the dog was finally able to climb onto the ice and get back to land.  Out of the trees swooped a big, beautiful red tailed hawk and circled above the dog's head. It was an amazing sign and a great day to know both the dog and Naomi are fine.
Occasionally we get dream visits from Naomi, but this is rare. Are your vivid dream visits in color?  I've heard that being in color means it is present time visit?
If anyone is interested  we have found great comfort reading the material contained in books by Dr. Michael Newton, Dr. Brian Weiss, and all or any of Neale Donald Walsch and the Conversations with God books.

Happy to Share,

Karen 


 4 
 on: February 23, 2015, 08:15:45 PM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by quiltartist
Hi Karen,  I'm in tears.  It's impossible to understand how these things can happen, how after your sorrow at losing your first baby, and the scare of Naomi's heart problem, you could then lose her in her childhood to a brain tumor.  A terrible blow.  My experience, and I can't reconcile it with how much we suffer in these losses, is that in another state, beyond life, these things don't seem to matter, as if life and death are a continuum and we in 'life' are unable to quite get that, to quite connect with that, but to our loved ones who've 'passed' it's a given.  And when we do connect across what we experience as such a great divide,  it is so powerful and gratifying.  Yet we still continue to feel the loss of the literal beloved so acutely.  It's a strange and a hard journey.  But like you my husband and I are determined not to be victims of these experiences.  We have remaining children and grandchildren and a life together; if we're going to be here we want to be here fully and appreciate our lives.  It's not always easy, but it's our commitment. 
My connection, with each of our children who've passed, comes most strongly in vivid dreams which are not ordinary dreams and which I call 'visit dreams'.  I wonder if you would be willing to tell me a little about how
your spiritual structure connects you to Naomi
Thank you for connecting.  Blessings. 

 5 
 on: February 22, 2015, 09:00:30 AM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by Karen0909
Hi Ladies,

I'm so sorry for both of you and your multiple losses.  I find it very helpful to read about the experiences of others and their losses and coping strategies.
My first loss was in 1994 and involved a miscarriage.  It took a long period of time becoming pregnant and I was a couple days away from publicly announcing my pregnancy. It was devastating to lose my baby and since I had kept my pregnancy secret I had very little support from others. My husband wasn't even sure how he felt about being a father and I think he was secretly relieved.   After that experience I vowed that if I ever got pregnant again I would tell everyone the minute I found out.  The silver lining from having a miscarriage was that I knew I could get pregnant.  A couple years later a fertility specialist told me it was very unlikely I would ever conceive with issues I had but I always believed I would become a mom.
Four years later at the ripe age of 39 I finally became pregnant again and this time we were thrilled and excited and I told everyone the minute I knew.  My pregnancy was uneventful until 2 weeks prior to my due date.  At this point my baby decided to turn around becoming breech and from the very second this happened I intuitively knew that "something" wasn't right.  Two weeks later with a booked C section we welcomed our beautiful daughter Naomi Elizabeth into our world. A day later we were informed there was an issue with her heart,  and we were sent to another hospital for a consult.  We were told she had 2 holes in her heart and eventually she would need surgery.  At 3 yrs old she underwent open heart surgery to repair the remaining hole that had not closed on it's own.  It was such a relief to finally have this health issue behind us and I remember the words of the heart surgeon. "She will live a normal life".
The next 3 years were wonderful experiencing parenthood with a beautiful, intelligent, full of life daughter that gave us incredible joy.  It was with shock and horror that we received the news Naomi had an inoperable, malignant brain tumour when she was 6 yrs old.  It seemed such a cruel, unbelievable circumstance after what we had gone through for 3 years with her heart issue.
Sadly, a year later, 3 months shy of her 8 th birthday she passed away.  I now feel grateful for her heart condition as I lived each moment with her being sooo grateful and never taking anything for granted.
It is now almost 9 years ago but it will always feel like yesterday in many ways.  We have continued on and
try and live with purpose and not get stuck in "victim mode" as well. 
Our spiritual belief system has helped us so much and the most helpful thing is having a relationship with Naomi in present time. I know each of us has to cope in a way that works for us.

Blessing to All of Us

Karen



 6 
 on: February 18, 2015, 10:59:45 PM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by quiltartist
I would certainly trust your heart's knowing that your son is not completely gone from the universe.  Trusting mine has been the best guidance.  At one point I knew I needed professional help with trying to sort out two grief processes at once and with the shock and horror of my daughter's time in the trauma hospital.  I 'asked' Ali for guidance to the right therapist (I've had therapy in the past and found it helpful, but this is not a generic situation; I needed someone with particuar understanding).  I looked through some sites of therapists in the small city nearest where I live.  I found one guy that simply 'felt right' to me.  I could tell you his credentials and training were excellent and they are but it wasn't that.  I liked his warmth and empathy right away, calm, centered, not overdone or underdone.  But it was session four that blew me away.  He told me he needed to disclose something about himself.  What he disclosed was that he too had lost a child whom he'd had to decide to remove from life support.  It has been a superbly helpful experience for over a year now.  He 'gets' every nuanced stage and step I go through and can relate back some of his own and his wife's experience in regard to it.  Something else he's told me is that he asks this child for guidance and takes the 'answers', which he recognizes intuitively, 'very seriously'.  This kind of support is rare and invaluable.  I hope this account provides more encouragement to you to trust that the bond you have with your son is ongoing and can support you and help you as you continue to support and love him in spirit. 

 7 
 on: February 17, 2015, 04:25:21 PM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by goaliemom
Hello again,

Thank you so much for your reply.  It helps me to know that others are surviving.  It has been almost three years since my boy passed.  For a long time, I could not look at pictures of him or even think about him without it bringing me pain. 

I really appreciate what you said about having a relationship with your children even after they passed.  I am starting to be able to do that.  Not completely, but small steps, which I hope will lead me to a greater connection to him.  I have never in my heart felt like he was gone from the universe, just in a different place. 

It sounds like you think the same thing, so maybe we can hold onto that for now.

Warmly,
goaliemom

 8 
 on: February 17, 2015, 02:52:36 PM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by quiltartist
Thank you, goaliemom.  Good god, what a marathon of terrible experiences you've been through.  I guess we're both walking around for the same reason: we wouldn't put our remaining loved ones through yet another shredding loss.  My spiritual life is strong, but personal and not conventional.  I had so much rage and despair in the first year, but I recognized it as a completely natural response to being hit again twice with what I guess I assumed was a one time occurrence, the loss of my young son Gregg.  I just let myself be swept along by that torrent because I know there is innate healing within us and answers come.  Besides, it's so much bigger than our little attempts to explain or manage it, don't you think?  I had no energy to manage it.  Like you, I'm sure, I was just raw and in horrible pain. It's changed lately, two years later.  I feel deeply connected to our children in the present.  I talk to them, joke with them, ask for their guidance, tell them how much I love them.  I buy holiday cards for my daughter and put them in her room.  I don't worry about what other people think is real.  People have strong opinions about that, but they're only opinions.  I'm perfectly functional.  Not crazy.  It's just my experience that what is 'real' is not restricted to what is material and since love seems to me the core of reality, the love I share with each of my kids should go on in a lively, real way, beyond the 'barriers' of death.   
I do find now I need to steer my thoughts.  I never avoid tears when they come, or sadness, but I do turn back from thoughts like "what's wrong with me that three of my children have died?" and "did we make the right decision to take her off life support?" etc.  I've been over that ground many times and unless I have a new insight, going over it again is just obsessing and perpetuating a depressive state.  If I'm going to be here I want to be here able to value life and do right by my others who are still here.  And I especially don't want to be a victim, to others or in my own mind.  That's what I'm working on now...  Tell me more about your experiences if you're willing...where do you find yourself now?  Are you still on an emotional rollercoaster?  How is your daughter doing with all of it?  Are there things you've learned going through this awful onslaught you find valuable (perversely, there are valuable things I think I've learned).  Thanks for connecting.  Love and blessings on you and those you love who are in spirit. 

 9 
 on: February 17, 2015, 12:58:32 PM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by goaliemom
Hello,

I was absolutely shaken as I was reading your post.  I wonder how you are still walking around.  While I have not lost 3 children.  My family has suffered many losses over the last 7 years. 

I had recently moved to Oregon from California 7 years ago.  My father had cancer, but we didn't think that he would pass any time soon.  Two months after I moved here, he passed suddenly from a heart attack.  I then proceeded to move my beloved mother and a disabled brother up here to be close to me.

Three years after that, my brother was struck by a car and died.  My mother passed 6 months later.  Shortly after that, I realized that my son was addicted to drugs.  He was also a type 1 diabetic.  Two years after my mother passed, my only son, who was neglecting his diabetes due to the drugs, fell into a diabetic coma and passed away in his sleep.  He was 21.

Of all the losses, none compare to the loss of my sweet baby boy.  Sometimes I wake up feeling okay, then I remember he is gone.  It is a pain that I would not wish on anyone.  So for you, it is tripled.  I hope that you now have some faith in a higher power that you can hold onto.  I do.  That faith and my daughter are the only reasons  I chose to stay alive.  I am glad the you can find some blessings in your grandchildren.  I hope that I have that one day as well.

Much love

 10 
 on: February 16, 2015, 08:13:49 PM 
Started by quiltartist - Last post by quiltartist
I'm not sure this is a new topic, having not read all the posts on this site.  Thirty three years ago my first child, my son Gregg died riding his bike, colliding with a car in a blind intersection.  He was 13.  He was my first experience of pure love and my first loss of a child.  I had no religious dogma to fall back on; the experience was a walk into a wall of fire.  I got sick over and over and over, lost ten pounds, cried for a year while my younger son was at school during the day.  I also had vivid 'visit' dreams from Gregg, full of comfort and deep information.  After five years my husband and I adopted our daughter.  Ali brought us so much purpose and joy, gave our sons a new sibling.  We remained close to her birth family, so had new extended family. We homeschooled her and she became a top scholar in college, a top level dressage rider, a tall ships sailor and historic ships preservationist.  She married her childhood sweetheart at age 25.  Two years ago she and her husband were hit crossing the street in a legal crosswalk.  She was brain dead on admission to the trauma unit.  Her husband was badly injured. 
After six days of evaluations which all said she was unlikely even to live off life support let alone regain any quality of life, her beloved young husband chose, with our full support, to remove her life support.  We held her as she died.  She was 27.  It was Dec 23rd.  Since autopsy was mandatory and because of the holiday, delayed, we could not bury her until January 5th.  On January 7th we learned our older son Dann (my husband's son, my stepson), who had been with us while Ali was in the trauma unit had been killed when the Chinook helicopter of which he was command pilot had broken up in the air killing him and his crew of six.
After two years I have just recently stopped crying many times a day, but am now fighting infections and having difficulty reestablishing health.  The last year has been a nightmare of legal proceedings, which are now nearly concluded.  I know my body is finally having an opportunity to react in its own way; it has held up well for two years.  Our brains have struggled to think and we have struggled to do the job of ordinary life.  But once again I have been blessed with exceptional dream visits from all three of our children which haven't, however, mitigated the anguish of missing them or the impact of the unthinkable having happened to them and three times to our family.  I find myself a little bit of a pariah; I think many people are absolutely horrified that this is even possible.  Despite that, so many have been so kind. Still, this is a very isolating experience. I have also lost three friends and my mother and aunt these last two years.  I have felt myself to be on impossible overload, a tremendous backlog of grief and other emotions.  Each of these loved ones deserves weeks of my focus and of course that's been impossible; my grief is focused on our children. 
I think of the people of Syria and other blighted places who lose multiple children and family members, and their homes, and the fabric of their communities and suffer the trauma of chronic violence. I'm grateful for the blessings of a home and a stable environment, our remaining family.  We have grandchildren who give us the blessing of new life. Is there anyone on this forum who's had multiple losses in a short period of time.  It would be helpful to talk with you if you're out there...

Pages: [1] 2 3 ... 10
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!